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user interface related experience,

发信人: yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光), 信区: ITnews
标  题: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sun Apr  8 18:31:31 2001) WWW-POST

well, let me start by saying you guys are amazing at the
previous conversation ! if world peace is handled that way,
we are soooooooooo done with war...

I still vividly remembered when I first tried Visual C++, I
am trying to learn the several frequently used acceleration
key combinations, like, you know, what are those again?
eh..., well, hold on a second... Oh, yeah, "Ctrl+Shift+U" is
to make your selection uppercase, right? and I happened to
forgot, what key is to make selection lowercase, so I make a
guess, as you probably would have, "Ctrl+Shift+L", and the
result, you know, it doesn't work. It turned out to be
"Ctrl+U" after I finally gave up and went for help, then I
realized that it is actually making sense by following the
convention of "Shift+something is for uppercase", so in this
case, "something" would be "Ctrl+U". But that doesn't
stopped me from wondering why I guessed what I guessed in
the first place: I thought U for uppercase then L must for
lowercase, isn't that intuitive? If microsoft has chosen
"Ctrl+Shift+L" instead of "Ctrl+U", would it be easier? and
one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?


--

梦里醒来的时候,推窗,发现天上还洒着月光。
刚刚确实是做了梦的,我努力回想梦境,所有的情节竟然都隐没了,只剩下一个
古老的,优雅的,安静的回廊,回廊里有轻浅的步声,好像一声一声的从我的心
踩过。

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 39.cambridge-13]
发信人: loggie (二黑 满山红叶 沧桑为谁), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sun Apr  8 18:42:16 2001), 转信

voice commander
【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: well, let me start by saying you guys are amazing at the
: previous conversation ! if world peace is handled that way,
: we are soooooooooo done with war...
: I still vividly remembered when I first tried Visual C++, I
: am trying to learn the several frequently used acceleration
: key combinations, like, you know, what are those again?
: eh..., well, hold on a second... Oh, yeah, "Ctrl+Shift+U" is
: to make your selection uppercase, right? and I happened to
: forgot, what key is to make selection lowercase, so I make a
: guess, as you probably would have, "Ctrl+Shift+L", and the
: result, you know, it doesn't work. It turned out to be
: "Ctrl+U" after I finally gave up and went for help, then I
: realized that it is actually making sense by following the
: convention of "Shift+something is for uppercase", so in this
: case, "something" would be "Ctrl+U". But that doesn't
: stopped me from wondering why I guessed what I guessed in
: the first place: I thought U for uppercase then L must for
: lowercase, isn't that intuitive? If microsoft has chosen
: "Ctrl+Shift+L" instead of "Ctrl+U", would it be easier? and
: one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
: huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
: as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
: users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?


--
厚积薄发, 秉诚度世

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 128.107.248.220]
发信人: Alex (好好学习天天向上), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sun Apr  8 20:31:36 2001), 站内信件

just remember shift is used as reverse.
then ctrl-u & ctrl-shift-u will be a pair, same as tab, shift-tab
【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: well, let me start by saying you guys are amazing at the
: previous conversation ! if world peace is handled that way,
: we are soooooooooo done with war...
: I still vividly remembered when I first tried Visual C++, I
: am trying to learn the several frequently used acceleration
: key combinations, like, you know, what are those again?
: eh..., well, hold on a second... Oh, yeah, "Ctrl+Shift+U" is
: to make your selection uppercase, right? and I happened to
: forgot, what key is to make selection lowercase, so I make a
: guess, as you probably would have, "Ctrl+Shift+L", and the
: result, you know, it doesn't work. It turned out to be
: "Ctrl+U" after I finally gave up and went for help, then I
: realized that it is actually making sense by following the
: convention of "Shift+something is for uppercase", so in this
: case, "something" would be "Ctrl+U". But that doesn't
: stopped me from wondering why I guessed what I guessed in
: the first place: I thought U for uppercase then L must for
: lowercase, isn't that intuitive? If microsoft has chosen
: "Ctrl+Shift+L" instead of "Ctrl+U", would it be easier? and
: one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
: huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
: as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
: users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 131.107.3.91]
发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sun Apr  8 21:22:54 2001), 站内信件


Somebody(dapengz?) on this board used to talk about how MS spends
a lot of money and effort on improving their UI.

About the hot key problem you raised, I think what they try to do
is to establish a "pair-by-shift" pattern, and make it a higher
priority than the (more intuitive) "first-letter" pattern.  The reason
is that it'll help resolve hot key assignment conflicts, and actually
make the whole hot key scheme more intuitive (at the price of being
less intuitive on some individual keys).

【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: well, let me start by saying you guys are amazing at the
: previous conversation ! if world peace is handled that way,
: we are soooooooooo done with war...
: I still vividly remembered when I first tried Visual C++, I
: am trying to learn the several frequently used acceleration
: key combinations, like, you know, what are those again?
: eh..., well, hold on a second... Oh, yeah, "Ctrl+Shift+U" is
: to make your selection uppercase, right? and I happened to
: forgot, what key is to make selection lowercase, so I make a
: guess, as you probably would have, "Ctrl+Shift+L", and the
: result, you know, it doesn't work. It turned out to be
: "Ctrl+U" after I finally gave up and went for help, then I
: realized that it is actually making sense by following the
: convention of "Shift+something is for uppercase", so in this
: case, "something" would be "Ctrl+U". But that doesn't
: stopped me from wondering why I guessed what I guessed in
: the first place: I thought U for uppercase then L must for
: lowercase, isn't that intuitive? If microsoft has chosen
: "Ctrl+Shift+L" instead of "Ctrl+U", would it be easier? and
: one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
: huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
: as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
: users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?


--
他号令便号令好了,又何必安静?

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 128.239.202.163]
发信人: whh (大不了爱吃爱吃), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sun Apr  8 21:47:48 2001) WWW-POST

These keystrokes/chars may contain too many meanings to end
users - like S may mean Select/Search/Substitute/... - so it
might mean different things to different people. It guess MS
is right by using Shift to do reverse things in key
combination. Alternatively, MS can do better by just using
right mouse click to list possible operations of selected
objects. In Word, some common operations are listed, but not
all things like changing cases. It should find a better way
to organize such operations and be more intuitive.

【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: well, let me start by saying you guys are amazing at the
: previous conversation ! if world peace is handled that way,
: we are soooooooooo done with war...
:
: I still vividly remembered when I first tried Visual C++, I
: am trying to learn the several frequently used acceleration
: key combinations, like, you know, what are those again?
: eh..., well, hold on a second... Oh, yeah, "Ctrl+Shift+U" is
: to make your selection uppercase, right? and I happened to
: forgot, what key is to make selection lowercase, so I make a
: guess, as you probably would have, "Ctrl+Shift+L", and the
: result, you know, it doesn't work. It turned out to be
: "Ctrl+U" after I finally gave up and went for help, then I
: realized that it is actually making sense by following the
: convention of "Shift+something is for uppercase", so in this
: case, "something" would be "Ctrl+U". But that doesn't
: stopped me from wondering why I guessed what I guessed in
: the first place: I thought U for uppercase then L must for
: lowercase, isn't that intuitive? If microsoft has chosen
: "Ctrl+Shift+L" instead of "Ctrl+U", would it be easier? and
: one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
: huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
: as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
: users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?
:
:


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: ]
发信人: whh (大不了爱吃爱吃), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sun Apr  8 21:52:34 2001) WWW-POST

What if the person next to you keep saying "delete,
delete..." or "shit,shit..." :).

【 在 loggie (二黑 满山红叶 沧桑为谁) 的大作中提到: 】
: voice commander
: 【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: : well, let me start by saying you guys are amazing at the
: : previous conversation ! if world peace is handled that way,
: : we are soooooooooo done with war...
: : I still vividly remembered when I first tried Visual C++, I
: : am trying to learn the several frequently used acceleration
: : key combinations, like, you know, what are those again?
: : eh..., well, hold on a second... Oh, yeah, "Ctrl+Shift+U" is
: : to make your selection uppercase, right? and I happened to
: : forgot, what key is to make selection lowercase, so I make a
: : guess, as you probably would have, "Ctrl+Shift+L", and the
: : result, you know, it doesn't work. It turned out to be
: : "Ctrl+U" after I finally gave up and went for help, then I
: : realized that it is actually making sense by following the
: : convention of "Shift+something is for uppercase", so in this
: : case, "something" would be "Ctrl+U". But that doesn't
: : stopped me from wondering why I guessed what I guessed in
: : the first place: I thought U for uppercase then L must for
: : lowercase, isn't that intuitive? If microsoft has chosen
: : "Ctrl+Shift+L" instead of "Ctrl+U", would it be easier? and
: : one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
: : huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
: : as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
: : users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?
:
:


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: ]
发信人: yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sun Apr  8 23:29:27 2001) WWW-POST

Even though I already knew lots of tricks on a particular
application (which is not surprising considering the amount
of time I put on it), I am still amazed by the fact that
this is a whole new area that not many of us have ever been
set foot on. I mean, think about it, how to make this
interaction between human and machine more efficient and
intuitive? I definitely respect the effort Microsoft, and
other companies for that matter, spend to improve their user
interface.

There are lots of debatable places when we talk about user
interaction, e.g. when I first get a remote control, pushing
pause once to pause, and then different vendors go different
ways from there, some make pushing pause again to resume,
while some make pusing play to resume and still some others
make both way working and some on purpose make only one way
working by disabling the other way. What do they have in
mind when they design this feature? Are some methods
necessarily better than others? What are those methods'
individual strength?

...


【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
:
: Somebody(dapengz?) on this board used to talk about how MS spends
: a lot of money and effort on improving their UI.
:
: About the hot key problem you raised, I think what they try to do
: is to establish a "pair-by-shift" pattern, and make it a higher
: priority than the (more intuitive) "first-letter" pattern.  The reason
: is that it'll help resolve hot key assignment conflicts, and actually
: make the whole hot key scheme more intuitive (at the price of being
: less intuitive on some individual keys).
:
: 【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: : well, let me start by saying you guys are amazing at the
: : previous conversation ! if world peace is handled that way,
: : we are soooooooooo done with war...
: : I still vividly remembered when I first tried Visual C++, I
: : am trying to learn the several frequently used acceleration
: : key combinations, like, you know, what are those again?
: : eh..., well, hold on a second... Oh, yeah, "Ctrl+Shift+U" is
: : to make your selection uppercase, right? and I happened to
: : forgot, what key is to make selection lowercase, so I make a
: : guess, as you probably would have, "Ctrl+Shift+L", and the
: : result, you know, it doesn't work. It turned out to be
: : "Ctrl+U" after I finally gave up and went for help, then I
: : realized that it is actually making sense by following the
: : convention of "Shift+something is for uppercase", so in this
: : case, "something" would be "Ctrl+U". But that doesn't
: : stopped me from wondering why I guessed what I guessed in
: : the first place: I thought U for uppercase then L must for
: : lowercase, isn't that intuitive? If microsoft has chosen
: : "Ctrl+Shift+L" instead of "Ctrl+U", would it be easier? and
: : one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
: : huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
: : as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
: : users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?
:
:

--

梦里醒来的时候,推窗,发现天上还洒着月光。
刚刚确实是做了梦的,我努力回想梦境,所有的情节竟然都隐没了,只剩下一个
古老的,优雅的,安静的回廊,回廊里有轻浅的步声,好像一声一声的从我的心
踩过。

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 115.cambridge-0]
发信人: lLazyCat (void), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 00:53:49 2001), 站内信件

I remember there is a table about the shortcut key maping
maybe in the help menu
【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: one step further, I am asking myself, is there something
: huge and worth to study and research behind this? How do we,
: as software designers, think as end user, on behalf of end
: users, and to make life as easier to them as we can?


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 128.195.229.77]
发信人: ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 10:29:09 2001), 转信

I think there is no one standard way to be intuitive per se. Everyone's got
his/her own style to play with. Someone might like to use the emacs key mapping
while others like vi(m)'s key mapping.
The key is to be able to customize according to different user's need. And that
is something Microsoft's product rarely does.

【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: Even though I already knew lots of tricks on a particular
: application (which is not surprising considering the amount
: of time I put on it), I am still amazed by the fact that
: this is a whole new area that not many of us have ever been
: set foot on. I mean, think about it, how to make this
: interaction between human and machine more efficient and
: intuitive? I definitely respect the effort Microsoft, and
: other companies for that matter, spend to improve their user
: interface.
: There are lots of debatable places when we talk about user
: interaction, e.g. when I first get a remote control, pushing
: pause once to pause, and then different vendors go different
: ways from there, some make pushing pause again to resume,
: while some make pusing play to resume and still some others
: make both way working and some on purpose make only one way
: working by disabling the other way. What do they have in
: mind when they design this feature? Are some methods
: necessarily better than others? What are those methods'
: individual strength?
: ...
: 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Somebody(dapengz?) on this board used to talk about how MS spends
: : a lot of money and effort on improving their UI.
: : About the hot key problem you raised, I think what they try to do
: : is to establish a "pair-by-shift" pattern, and make it a higher
: : priority than the (more intuitive) "first-letter" pattern.  The reason
: : is that it'll help resolve hot key assignment conflicts, and actually
: : make the whole hot key scheme more intuitive (at the price of being
: : less intuitive on some individual keys).


--
telnet to zpbbs.dhs.org

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.252.95.167]
发信人: qili (qili), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 15:16:44 2001) WWW-POST

: 【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: : how to make this
: : interaction between human and machine more efficient and
: : intuitive?

I always thought that the Borg got it right - direct
interface with
one's nerve system, no inefficient and error-prone
intermediaries like fingers,
keyboards, CRT, and eyes.


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 204.60.124.22]
发信人: dys (home), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 15:45:37 2001), 转信



【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: I think there is no one standard way to be intuitive per se. Everyone's got
: his/her own style to play with. Someone might like to use the emacs key mapping
: while others like vi(m)'s key mapping.
: The key is to be able to customize according to different user's need. And that
: is something Microsoft's product rarely does.

This is not true.
In M$ prducts such as Word, Excel, and Visual C++, surely you can custom key
mapping. In addition, you can associate a series of actions with a shortcut
key.


: 【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Even though I already knew lots of tricks on a particular
: : application (which is not surprising considering the amount
: : of time I put on it), I am still amazed by the fact that
: : this is a whole new area that not many of us have ever been


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 128.95.141.98]
发信人: ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:00:11 2001), 转信

Compare the customiziblity between Microsoft's products and others
is just pathetic.

【 在 dys (home) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : I think there is no one standard way to be intuitive per se. Everyone's got
: : his/her own style to play with. Someone might like to use the emacs key mapping
: : while others like vi(m)'s key mapping.
: : The key is to be able to customize according to different user's need. And that
: : is something Microsoft's product rarely does.
: This is not true.
: In M$ prducts such as Word, Excel, and Visual C++, surely you can custom key
: mapping. In addition, you can associate a series of actions with a shortcut
: key.


--
telnet to zpbbs.dhs.org

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.252.95.167]
发信人: dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:16:16 2001) WWW-POST

sure, you have the source code for the open source software.
you can presumably customize it for whatever need you might
have.  however, how many people really need it?  Does the
lack of customizibility really a bad thing?  however
customizable emacs is, it has not taken over the world. 

【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: Compare the customiziblity between Microsoft's products and others
: is just pathetic.
:
: 【 在 dys (home) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : I think there is no one standard way to be intuitive per se. Everyone's got
: : : his/her own style to play with. Someone might like to use the emacs key mapping
: : : while others like vi(m)'s key mapping.
: : : The key is to be able to customize according to different user's need. And that
: : : is something Microsoft's product rarely does.
: : This is not true.
: : In M$ prducts such as Word, Excel, and Visual C++, surely you can custom key
: : mapping. In addition, you can associate a series of actions with a shortcut
: : key.
:
:

--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: sfwka.stanford.]
发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:13:50 2001), 站内信件


Generally I believe customizability is the key for a nice
UI.  No matter how intuitive a designer thought a UI might
be, there are always other people who wouldn't think so when
they start using the UI, simply because they follow entirely
different patterns  or assumptions.  And there is always
a threshold in terms of time and pyscology that a user would spend on
trying out the new UI before claiming it is "hard to use".
(I'm pretty sure that ayanami's threshold on MS product
is quite low).

【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: Even though I already knew lots of tricks on a particular
: application (which is not surprising considering the amount
: of time I put on it), I am still amazed by the fact that
: this is a whole new area that not many of us have ever been
: set foot on. I mean, think about it, how to make this
: interaction between human and machine more efficient and
: intuitive? I definitely respect the effort Microsoft, and
: other companies for that matter, spend to improve their user
: interface.
: There are lots of debatable places when we talk about user
: interaction, e.g. when I first get a remote control, pushing
: pause once to pause, and then different vendors go different
: ways from there, some make pushing pause again to resume,
: while some make pusing play to resume and still some others
: make both way working and some on purpose make only one way
: working by disabling the other way. What do they have in
: mind when they design this feature? Are some methods
: necessarily better than others? What are those methods'
: individual strength?
: ...

--
他号令便号令好了,又何必安静?

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 38.204.0.2]
发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:25:16 2001), 站内信件


There are three things out there which I'm not sure which one
is really pathetic, but I'm sure at least one of them is:

1.MS products.
2.ayanami's attitude towards MS products.
3.ayanami's knowledge on MS products.

8-)

【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: Compare the customiziblity between Microsoft's products and others
: is just pathetic.
: 【 在 dys (home) 的大作中提到: 】
: : This is not true.
: : In M$ prducts such as Word, Excel, and Visual C++, surely you can custom key
: : mapping. In addition, you can associate a series of actions with a shortcut
: : key.


--
他号令便号令好了,又何必安静?

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 38.204.0.2]
发信人: ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:23:18 2001), 转信

1: you are way off the point
2: There are lots of other softwares (close sourced) that do better customzing
than Microsoft's.
3: I am not talking about changing the source code for christ's sake. Use
some Linux for a while and see what I mean.

【 在 dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~) 的大作中提到: 】
: sure, you have the source code for the open source software.
:  you can presumably customize it for whatever need you might
: have.  however, how many people really need it?  Does the
: lack of customizibility really a bad thing?  however
: customizable emacs is, it has not taken over the world. 
: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Compare the customiziblity between Microsoft's products and others
: : is just pathetic.


--
telnet to zpbbs.dhs.org

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.252.95.167]
发信人: ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:40:17 2001), 转信

Tell me one major microsoft product and I will tell you why it sucks. :)
(mouse doesn't count. I really love my microsoft mices. )


【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
: There are three things out there which I'm not sure which one
: is really pathetic, but I'm sure at least one of them is:
: 1.MS products.
: 2.ayanami's attitude towards MS products.
: 3.ayanami's knowledge on MS products.
: 8-)
: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Compare the customiziblity between Microsoft's products and others
: : is just pathetic.


--
telnet to zpbbs.dhs.org

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.252.95.167]
发信人: ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:43:28 2001), 转信

You don't hate/dislike something without a reason.

【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
: There are three things out there which I'm not sure which one
: is really pathetic, but I'm sure at least one of them is:
: 1.MS products.
: 2.ayanami's attitude towards MS products.
: 3.ayanami's knowledge on MS products.
: 8-)
: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Compare the customiziblity between Microsoft's products and others
: : is just pathetic.


--
telnet to zpbbs.dhs.org

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.252.95.167]
发信人: dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:44:42 2001), 站内信件

man, i use linux everyday.  two out of my three machines were
running linux.
AND, i seldom customize anything.  i know i can but i just do not want
to. :)

what's the point of making a software customizeable if only a few users
want to customize it?

【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1: you are way off the point
: 2: There are lots of other softwares (close sourced) that do better customzing
: than Microsoft's.
: 3: I am not talking about changing the source code for christ's sake. Use
: some Linux for a while and see what I mean.
: 【 在 dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~) 的大作中提到: 】
: : sure, you have the source code for the open source software.
: :  you can presumably customize it for whatever need you might
: : have.  however, how many people really need it?  Does the
: : lack of customizibility really a bad thing?  however
: : customizable emacs is, it has not taken over the world. 


--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 171.64.70.240]
发信人: penh (怕怕~与bbs共存亡), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:48:30 2001), 站内信件


geee, then how could you make others think you are an expert or you are cool?

【 在 dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~) 的大作中提到: 】
: man, i use linux everyday.  two out of my three machines were
: running linux.
: AND, i seldom customize anything.  i know i can but i just do not want
: to. :)
: what's the point of making a software customizeable if only a few users
: want to customize it?
: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 1: you are way off the point
: : 2: There are lots of other softwares (close sourced) that do better customzing
: : than Microsoft's.
: : 3: I am not talking about changing the source code for christ's sake. Use
: : some Linux for a while and see what I mean.


--
"Whatever Happened to Pong ?" (F. Black)

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 155.101.19.156]
发信人: ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 16:49:40 2001), 转信

man, I use windows everday. two out of my two machines are running windows.
:ppp (But I use abiword, mozilla, textpad instead of those microsoft alternative
most of the time)

【 在 dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~) 的大作中提到: 】
: man, i use linux everyday.  two out of my three machines were
: running linux.
: AND, i seldom customize anything.  i know i can but i just do not want
: to. :)
: what's the point of making a software customizeable if only a few users
: want to customize it?
I wonder how many computer users you know that you can make this bold claim.


: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 1: you are way off the point
: : 2: There are lots of other softwares (close sourced) that do better customzing
: : than Microsoft's.
: : 3: I am not talking about changing the source code for christ's sake. Use
: : some Linux for a while and see what I mean.


--
telnet to zpbbs.dhs.org

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.252.95.167]
发信人: dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Mon Apr  9 17:38:26 2001) WWW-POST

I've seen some studies on how user uses their computer and
how it might help to remove customizability.  for example,
here is a study on how effective the Windows desktop user
interface is and how it should be improved.  although i
don't think it makes sense, but at least people are doing
such studies before they blindly add customizability to
their software.  remember, everything comes with a price.
The goal of a software company that actually makes money is
to pay as little price as possible, at the same satisfy as
many users as possible.

There were three ways in which participants accessed
programs on their computers: 
·Clicking on an icon in the quick launch area directly to
the right of the start menu.
·Clicking on an icon on the desktop
·Clicking on start>clicking on programs>clicking on the
desired application

The most common observed way to access a program was to
click on the start>click on programs> and click on desired
application
·6 participants (55%) chose to click on
start>programs>application
·3 participants (27%) chose to click on an icon in the
quick launch area
·2 participants (18%) chose to click on an icon on their
desktop


After doing three different tasks, 67 participants (64%)
were consistent in their methods of accessing applications.
Only 4 people (36%)chose an alternative method to access an
application.  All 4 people were categorized in the
“beginner” group. 
·Two participants went from start>program>application to
clicking an icon on the desktop. 
·Two participants went from clicking an icon on the desktop
to start>program>application.

Recommendations for all three methods:
·A design that combines all three methods of accessing
programs and applications would satisfy the needs of most
users. 
·A design that eliminates multiple methods of accessing
programs would make the user feel confident and successful.

·A start menu/start page that clearly displays a list of
the programs that the user actively uses would eliminate the
need for cascading menus that are problematic for users.


【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: man, I use windows everday. two out of my two machines are running windows.
: :ppp (But I use abiword, mozilla, textpad instead of those microsoft alternative
: most of the time)
:
: 【 在 dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~) 的大作中提到: 】
: : man, i use linux everyday.  two out of my three machines were
: : running linux.
: : AND, i seldom customize anything.  i know i can but i just do not want
: : to. :)
: : what's the point of making a software customizeable if only a few users
: : want to customize it?
: I wonder how many computer users you know that you can make this bold claim.
:
:
: : 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : 1: you are way off the point
: : : 2: There are lots of other softwares (close sourced) that do better customzing
: : : than Microsoft's.
: : : 3: I am not talking about changing the source code for christ's sake. Use
: : : some Linux for a while and see what I mean.
:
:

--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: dnab4046f0.stan]
发信人: uz (uu), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Apr 10 02:32:39 2001), 转信

confused by your numbers.
How many participants exactly in your experiment?
I don't see a strong connection between the numbers
and the conclusion.


【 在 dapengz (神啊, 救救我吧~~~~) 的大作中提到: 】
: I've seen some studies on how user uses their computer and
: how it might help to remove customizability.  for example,
: here is a study on how effective the Windows desktop user
: interface is and how it should be improved.  although i
: don't think it makes sense, but at least people are doing
: such studies before they blindly add customizability to
: their software.  remember, everything comes with a price.
: The goal of a software company that actually makes money is
: to pay as little price as possible, at the same satisfy as
: many users as possible.
: There were three ways in which participants accessed
: programs on their computers: 
: ·Clicking on an icon in the quick launch area directly to
: the right of the start menu.
: ·Clicking on an icon on the desktop
: ·Clicking on start>clicking on programs>clicking on the
: desired application
: The most common observed way to access a program was to
: click on the start>click on programs> and click on desired
: application
: ·6 participants (55%) chose to click on
: start>programs>application
: ·3 participants (27%) chose to click on an icon in the
: quick launch area
: ·2 participants (18%) chose to click on an icon on their
: desktop
: After doing three different tasks, 67 participants (64%)
: were consistent in their methods of accessing applications.
: Only 4 people (36%)chose an alternative method to access an
: application.  All 4 people were categorized in the
: “beginner” group. 
: ·Two participants went from start>program>application to
: clicking an icon on the desktop. 
: ·Two participants went from clicking an icon on the desktop
: to start>program>application.
: Recommendations for all three methods:
: ·A design that combines all three methods of accessing
: programs and applications would satisfy the needs of most
: users. 
: ·A design that eliminates multiple methods of accessing
: programs would make the user feel confident and successful.
: ·A start menu/start page that clearly displays a list of
: the programs that the user actively uses would eliminate the
: need for cascading menus that are problematic for users.
: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : man, I use windows everday. two out of my two machines are running windows.
: : most of the time)
: : I wonder how many computer users you know that you can make this bold claim.


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.20.165.237]
发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Apr 10 11:32:29 2001), 站内信件


Tell me one thing, *anything*, and I will tell you why it sucks. 8-)

【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: Tell me one major microsoft product and I will tell you why it sucks. :)
: (mouse doesn't count. I really love my microsoft mices. )
: 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
: : There are three things out there which I'm not sure which one
: : is really pathetic, but I'm sure at least one of them is:
: : 1.MS products.
: : 2.ayanami's attitude towards MS products.
: : 3.ayanami's knowledge on MS products.
: : 8-)


--
他号令便号令好了,又何必安静?

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 38.204.0.2]
发信人: yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Apr 10 11:46:05 2001) WWW-POST

【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
:
: Tell me one thing, *anything*, and I will tell you why it sucks. 8-)
ok, let me try, "nothing"?
why does nothing suck?

you know what homer and bender will say about this bbs?
Homer: boring.
Homer: you little ...
Bender: bite my shiny metal ass!

:
: 【 在 ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Tell me one major microsoft product and I will tell you why it sucks. :)
: : (mouse doesn't count. I really love my microsoft mices. )
: : 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : There are three things out there which I'm not sure which one
: : : is really pathetic, but I'm sure at least one of them is:
: : : 1.MS products.
: : : 2.ayanami's attitude towards MS products.
: : : 3.ayanami's knowledge on MS products.
: : : 8-)
:
:


--

梦里醒来的时候,推窗,发现天上还洒着月光。
刚刚确实是做了梦的,我努力回想梦境,所有的情节竟然都隐没了,只剩下一个
古老的,优雅的,安静的回廊,回廊里有轻浅的步声,好像一声一声的从我的心
踩过。

※ 修改:·yunli 於 Apr 10 11:46:05 修改本文·[FROM: yunli2000.funk.]
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: yunli2000.funk.]
发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Apr 10 12:48:24 2001), 站内信件

【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: ok, let me try, "nothing"?
: why does nothing suck?

Why does nothing suck?  Because it is not a thing yet it tries to
pretend it is to find out why itself sucks... 8->

: you know what homer and bender will say about this bbs?
: Homer: boring.
: Homer: you little ...
: Bender: bite my shiny metal ass!

Uh-oh, didn't get this one...

--
他号令便号令好了,又何必安静?

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 38.204.0.2]
发信人: yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Apr 10 13:16:20 2001) WWW-POST

【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: : ok, let me try, "nothing"?
: : why does nothing suck?
:
: Why does nothing suck?  Because it is not a thing yet it tries to
: pretend it is to find out why itself sucks... 8->
Nothing sucks more than anything.
:
: : you know what homer and bender will say about this bbs?
: : Homer: boring.
: : Homer: you little ...
: : Bender: bite my shiny metal ass!
:
: Uh-oh, didn't get this one...
Never mind, I am just crazy about those characters...
:

--

梦里醒来的时候,推窗,发现天上还洒着月光。
刚刚确实是做了梦的,我努力回想梦境,所有的情节竟然都隐没了,只剩下一个
古老的,优雅的,安静的回廊,回廊里有轻浅的步声,好像一声一声的从我的心
踩过。

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: yunli2000.funk.]
发信人: ayanami (我是可爱的男甲亢), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: user interface related experience, etc.
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Apr 10 13:38:06 2001), 转信

hahaaha....

【 在 yunli (心如★在无助里奢想曙光) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子~missing my Friend) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Why does nothing suck?  Because it is not a thing yet it tries to
: : pretend it is to find out why itself sucks... 8->
: Nothing sucks more than anything.
: : Uh-oh, didn't get this one...
: Never mind, I am just crazy about those characters...


--
telnet to zpbbs.dhs.org

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 64.252.95.167]

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