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Netscape为何败走麦城(合集)

发信人: power (一块红布), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 13:17:43 2000), 站内信件

这是一篇比较老的文章。我今天看到后便想和大伙讨论一下。
Netscape真的有机会生存下来么?王志东所说的“让兔子在山路
上和卡车赛跑”是否有些理想主义了?对于软件行业的netscape,
它如何找到它的山路呢?

另一个问题就是,如果Netscape以一种成熟的商业伙伴态度来对待微软,
比如最初时答应在windows中预装Navigator, 那么是否会博得充分的时间
来发展壮大自己,并通过Windows来达到极大的browser市场份额呢?
同时似乎也可以延迟IE的到来。一旦资金和市场建立起来,即使和IE
进行免费大战也是很有一搏的。

似乎问题的关键在于Netscape高估了自己,把自己定位于一个新时代的开创者,
一个反对微软时代的旗手,而没有韬光养晦充分利用新时代的机会发展自己。

微软和Netscape之战,似乎是商业社会的胜利,也是理想主义的悲哀。

随便和大伙聊聊,望多多发言。


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 129.186.1.202]
发信人: power (一块红布), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 13:26:40 2000), 站内信件

反观非常成功的AOL, 最初并没有旗帜鲜明地反微软,
最早用NS为缺省browser,后来被微软威胁,遂改用IE,
让微软十分满足而放松了警惕。然后AOL迅速地发展自己,
当用户达到2500万时,并且是少数几家盈利单位时,
它就有充足的底气开始和对手叫板了。

当然,在AOL壮大的过程中,微软正忙着灭Netscape,
而且并没有注意到ISP等service的市场。

再想一想,Netscape是否当初做ISP等service能获得“在山路上奔跑逃生”的机会呢?

再想一想,如果MSN说全免费(微软巨大的赌博),AOL能生存么?




--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 129.186.1.202]
发信人: power (一块红布), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 13:33:27 2000), 站内信件

是否AOL考虑到未来的某个时间微软也会用免费加捆绑来奔袭ISP,
所以先发制人,以Netscape为契机将微软送上法庭?

哪怕反垄断案不成功,也可以达到敲山镇虎的目的。让微软不敢轻易乱来。
这样AOL就获得了在原始积累阶段最宝贵的时间和宽松的竞争环境。

所以,AOL收购Netscape,我认为非常高,无论从技术上还是商业上。


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 129.186.1.202]
发信人: power (一块红布), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 13:40:33 2000), 站内信件

【 在 st (小老虎) 的大作中提到: 】
: if I own netscape, I will sell it to ms, why not?

要我就不会卖,一个崭新的市场,手中有一大批自己建立起来的行业标准
和一个有着极大市场份额的产品,完全可以做一番大事业,从当时来看,
超过微软的机会很值得一博。坚决不卖。

如果象hotmail这种服务,当时还没有电子商务的完整模式,看不到太多
发展的希望,卖给microsoft也就无所谓。

另外,象webTV这种虽然有很好的技术和商业起点,但资金技术的缺口还是太大,
只好靠向微软以获得资源。

Netscape就不同,各方面都不是很缺,很有希望自己成长为一个巨人。



--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 129.186.1.202]
发信人: devil (闲人), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 13:42:11 2000), 站内信件

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 这是一篇比较老的文章。我今天看到后便想和大伙讨论一下。
: Netscape真的有机会生存下来么?王志东所说的“让兔子在山路
: 上和卡车赛跑”是否有些理想主义了?对于软件行业的netscape,
: 它如何找到它的山路呢?
这是一个很好的问题,欢迎大家踊跃发言 :)

: 另一个问题就是,如果Netscape以一种成熟的商业伙伴态度来对待微软,
: 比如最初时答应在windows中预装Navigator, 那么是否会博得充分的时间
: 来发展壮大自己,并通过Windows来达到极大的browser市场份额呢?
: 同时似乎也可以延迟IE的到来。一旦资金和市场建立起来,即使和IE
: 进行免费大战也是很有一搏的。

似乎从开始,Netscape 就以一种敌对的态度对待 MS
这个好象也是最近5年来IT行业的一种类似于“英雄主义”的举动
很多人都以打败MS为目的,

Netscape 就是这样,过早把一个这个市场的主宰力量推到了敌人的位置
这是一种“理想主义”或“英雄主义”的举动  ;pp

但,另外一个不可忽视的因素就是MS or Bill Gates的雄心或者野心
他们对于任何有利可图的小夥伴的策略都是吃掉
也许,Netscape 就是处于这个被吃的位置但有想抗争


: 似乎问题的关键在于Netscape高估了自己,把自己定位于一个新时代的开创者,
: 一个反对微软时代的旗手,而没有韬光养晦充分利用新时代的机会发展自己。
: 微软和Netscape之战,似乎是商业社会的胜利,也是理想主义的悲哀。
: 随便和大伙聊聊,望多多发言。
Netscape 是Iternet时代的开创者,但开创者不一定一定会成功
Apply 失败了,but MS 靠着IBM就成功了


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 132.170.109.198]
发信人: power (一块红布), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 13:53:33 2000), 站内信件

【 在 devil (闲人) 的大作中提到: 】
: 这个好象也是最近5年来IT行业的一种类似于“英雄主义”的举动
: 很多人都以打败MS为目的,
: Netscape 就是这样,过早把一个这个市场的主宰力量推到了敌人的位置
: 这是一种“理想主义”或“英雄主义”的举动  ;pp
深以为然。
但是否Netscape通过允许让Windows预装而成为商业伙伴
而达到当年Microsoft通过IBM PC而实现的腾飞呢?
也许机会很大。
其实想一想,browser不就是网络时代的operating system么?

如果获得宝贵的时间和对手忽视的机会,而等到Netscape推出5.0
或者Communicator 2000或2100等版本而IE才刚刚起步,那么等待IE的
不就是OS/2或者DR-DOS的下场么?

不过微软会那么傻么?

呵呵,想不清楚,不过也许当时Netscape把微软当商业伙伴(来站在巨人的
肩膀上发展自己),自己生存发展的机会会更大些。


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 129.186.1.202]
发信人: dapengz (Dapeng), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 13:56:22 2000), 站内信件

The legal challenge has actually enraged Bill Gates.  BillG and SteveB
are quite angry about the proposal of breaking up microsoft.  SteveB
told a bunch of former ms inerns last saturday:" We will not be broken
up!  We will continue integrate our next generation services into
Windows.  Go Baby, yeah, baby GO!"

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 是否AOL考虑到未来的某个时间微软也会用免费加捆绑来奔袭ISP,
: 所以先发制人,以Netscape为契机将微软送上法庭?
: 哪怕反垄断案不成功,也可以达到敲山镇虎的目的。让微软不敢轻易乱来。
: 这样AOL就获得了在原始积累阶段最宝贵的时间和宽松的竞争环境。
: 所以,AOL收购Netscape,我认为非常高,无论从技术上还是商业上。


--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 141.213.11.223]
发信人: walklooktalk (千红一窟), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 14:08:13 2000), 站内信件

Netscape并没有彻底丧失还手的机会。

Netscape 5.0可能又是一个转折点,它如果能够继续其Open Source的路子,
以其多平台性,大可再扳回来。

当然这只是对一个软件而言,如果对于商业动作,Netscape是彻底失败了,
并且机会一旦失去,将不会再来。真是可惜。

--

我是一匹脱缰的野狗,狂奔于你荒芜的心上。

                           千山我一独行

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 207.138.150.70]
发信人: calc (calc), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 15:02:56 2000), 站内信件

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 是否AOL考虑到未来的某个时间微软也会用免费加捆绑来奔袭ISP,
: 所以先发制人,以Netscape为契机将微软送上法庭?

如果MSN真的免费了, 想必AOL也会提供有限的免费拨号上网服务.
(比如每个月10小时之内免费). 现在的AOL-Time Warner财大气粗,
各种媒介加起来有上亿订户了, 若是真把MSN视为对手, 完全可能
有限度牺牲拨号上网这一块的现金收入来争夺市场的. 只要保住
了订户, 通过其他一些电子商务的回扣之类手段来挣点钱还是有
希望的.

微软要想进军ISP, 面临的已非昔日吴下阿蒙, 而是跨越所有媒体
的巨人AOL-Time Warner, 若不多找传统媒体公司来撑腰, 很难有
突破口.

何况如果微软真被拆开来了, ISP部分便不大可能真的大有起色,
不能算很大的威胁. 将来要警惕的大概是AOL-Time Warner的垄断
了. :)


: 哪怕反垄断案不成功,也可以达到敲山镇虎的目的。让微软不敢轻易乱来。
: 这样AOL就获得了在原始积累阶段最宝贵的时间和宽松的竞争环境。
: 所以,AOL收购Netscape,我认为非常高,无论从技术上还是商业上。


--
巨隐隐于网

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 130.207.3.11]
发信人: lpx (红日~~独自远行 ), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 15:46:12 2000), 站内信件


Netscape 在 Windows 下的暗然失色, 使得它跟 Linux 结成了
真正的难兄难弟。

Linux 是 Windows 的一个很危险的潜在敌人, 旗帜鲜明的站出
来要终结 Windows。 也许是为了扼杀Linux, 又也许是技术上的
原因, M$没有在 Linux/Unix 下开发他的 IE。 而 Netscape 却
和Linux/Unix 有着无缝的连接。

Linux/Unix 应该不会被 Windows 逼绝吧, 所以 Linux/Unix
是 Netscape 的一个暂时安全而稳固的据点, 也是 Netscape
发起反攻的最大的筹码。

Linux + Netscape vs. Windows + IE 称得上是软件中的世界大战。
而这场战争的意义却远大于它本身。 战争的胜负, 决定了未来
软件业, 甚至整个IT业的发展模式。

”开放代码“这条路到底能不能绕过M$这座大山?

Netscape 应该把它与 Linux/Unix 的连接做得更好, 技术更成熟。
到时, IE要进军 Linux/Unix, 恐怕插翅也追不上。
这就得看Linux的本事了。

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 这是一篇比较老的文章。我今天看到后便想和大伙讨论一下。
: Netscape真的有机会生存下来么?王志东所说的“让兔子在山路
: 上和卡车赛跑”是否有些理想主义了?对于软件行业的netscape,
: 它如何找到它的山路呢?
: 另一个问题就是,如果Netscape以一种成熟的商业伙伴态度来对待微软,
: 比如最初时答应在windows中预装Navigator, 那么是否会博得充分的时间
: 来发展壮大自己,并通过Windows来达到极大的browser市场份额呢?
: 同时似乎也可以延迟IE的到来。一旦资金和市场建立起来,即使和IE
: 进行免费大战也是很有一搏的。
: 似乎问题的关键在于Netscape高估了自己,把自己定位于一个新时代的开创者,
: 一个反对微软时代的旗手,而没有韬光养晦充分利用新时代的机会发展自己。
: 微软和Netscape之战,似乎是商业社会的胜利,也是理想主义的悲哀。
: 随便和大伙聊聊,望多多发言。


--

一把吉他   一个相机  一肩背囊

沿着铁路

偶     独自远行去了。。。  

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 128.143.190.62]
发信人: qili (qili), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 15:53:10 2000), 站内信件

first of all, I don't think the merger will work: TW has a much
slower growth rate, huge amount of debt. both of which will drag
down the survival entity.

Having said that, the merger is more for AOL's survival than to TW's:
internet service is THE commodity on the net. As such, it is very
difficult for an isp to differentiate itself. My believe is the ISP
industry is going to consolidate to a limited number of service provider
who provide an expansive products/services nationwide/worldwide. In
the US, a lot of that will be delivered through some kind of
broad band solution, either cable/dsl/fixed wireless or satellite.

AOL's dial-up service is on borrowed time, strategically speaking.

The merger, to AOL, means two things:
a) it now has obtained TW's excellent portfolio of proprietary
content. and
b) it now has a broadband deliver channel, and 22 million homes passed
in the US. this is extremely important as it ensures AOL's
survival post ATT's buy-out of TCI.

My conclusions:
a) TW shareholders have a lot more leverage in the merger than AOL
shareholders (thus a premium on TW stocks);
b) it is unlikely AOL will get the deal done. If so, no internet company
will ever be able to buy a traditional content provider like TW;
c) If AOL cannot get the deal done, its future looks a lot dimmer.

If, via miracle, that AOL does close the deal, ATT/TCI/@home will feel the
biggest near-term threat (answer B). Longer term, AOL will become an
effective delivery channel for TW content, thus threating survival of magazine
publishers, studio/programming providers (thus networks). But again, the chance
of that happening isn't too realistic.

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 那么,AOL-Time Warner合并案对谁威胁最大呢?
: (如果不考虑各自的野心,而仅针对生存问题而言)
: A. 微软
: B. AT&T
: C. 美国在Time-Warner集团以外的几大电视台
: D. 报业


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 206.189.24.6]
发信人: dapengz (Dapeng), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 16:31:01 2000), 站内信件

You see a very weird situation here.  When everyone in the industry
is degrading the importance of PC, the importance of the operating
system, several Linux stocks made spetacular IPOs.  The industry
has reached the point where the internal working of the OS is not
importance any more.  The color is even more important.  So how can
Linux take a stronghold if it can not compare with W2k in terms of
User Interface?

In my opinion, Linux and Netscape are both dead.  Few at Microsoft are
worrying about them.  Remember, computers are just tools.  We need them
to raise productivity.  So the next generation of operating system will
have multiple services built in, which will greatly simplify the everyday
life.  As a normal user, I do not care what OS or Web Browser my computer
is using.  As long as it is pretty and stable and powerful, I am happy.

Imagine if Microsoft has the following functionality built into Windows
2001:
you want to fly over to Florida for your friend's wedding.  So you open
the calendar, create an entry saying fly to Miami.  The computer automatically
goes out to the airline's services, hotel's services, find the lowest fare,
book the ticket with your permission, notify the friend of your trip,
make a reservation at the hotel, make a reservation at the rental car company,
monitor the flight update while you are on the sky, notify your friend of
any delays.

If I have this service built in, why do I still need priceline.com,
expedia.com, tracelocity.com?

If I have  services like this in my system, why do I care if it is Linux or
WIndows? 
【 在 lpx (红日~~独自远行 ) 的大作中提到: 】
: Netscape 在 Windows 下的暗然失色, 使得它跟 Linux 结成了
: 真正的难兄难弟。
: Linux 是 Windows 的一个很危险的潜在敌人, 旗帜鲜明的站出
: 来要终结 Windows。 也许是为了扼杀Linux, 又也许是技术上的
: 原因, M$没有在 Linux/Unix 下开发他的 IE。 而 Netscape 却
: 和Linux/Unix 有着无缝的连接。
: Linux/Unix 应该不会被 Windows 逼绝吧, 所以 Linux/Unix
: 是 Netscape 的一个暂时安全而稳固的据点, 也是 Netscape
: 发起反攻的最大的筹码。
: Linux + Netscape vs. Windows + IE 称得上是软件中的世界大战。
: 而这场战争的意义却远大于它本身。 战争的胜负, 决定了未来
: 软件业, 甚至整个IT业的发展模式。
: ”开放代码“这条路到底能不能绕过M$这座大山?
: Netscape 应该把它与 Linux/Unix 的连接做得更好, 技术更成熟。
: 到时, IE要进军 Linux/Unix, 恐怕插翅也追不上。
: 这就得看Linux的本事了。
: 【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 这是一篇比较老的文章。我今天看到后便想和大伙讨论一下。
: : Netscape真的有机会生存下来么?王志东所说的“让兔子在山路
: : 上和卡车赛跑”是否有些理想主义了?对于软件行业的netscape,
: : 它如何找到它的山路呢?
: : 另一个问题就是,如果Netscape以一种成熟的商业伙伴态度来对待微软,
: : 比如最初时答应在windows中预装Navigator, 那么是否会博得充分的时间
: : 来发展壮大自己,并通过Windows来达到极大的browser市场份额呢?
: : 同时似乎也可以延迟IE的到来。一旦资金和市场建立起来,即使和IE
: : 进行免费大战也是很有一搏的。
: : 似乎问题的关键在于Netscape高估了自己,把自己定位于一个新时代的开创者,
: : 一个反对微软时代的旗手,而没有韬光养晦充分利用新时代的机会发展自己。
: : 微软和Netscape之战,似乎是商业社会的胜利,也是理想主义的悲哀。
: : 随便和大伙聊聊,望多多发言。


--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 141.213.11.223]
发信人: breeze (gaga), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 16:45:38 2000), 转信

for any OS to surpass MSFT in terms of user-friendliness and maintain
the claim of stability .. i doubt if it's possible.

After all all software are developed by human.. you think LInux programmers
are smarter than MSFT? MSFT is the largest software maker and yte still
have problems.. what makes Sun or Linux supreme?

Unix can only claim better stability because they're not able to come up
with the user-friendly tools like MSFT :)

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: : In my opinion, Linux and Netscape are both dead.  Few at Microsoft are
: : worrying about them.  Remember, computers are just tools.  We need them
: : to raise productivity.  So the next generation of operating system will
: : have multiple services built in, which will greatly simplify the everyday
: : life.  As a normal user, I do not care what OS or Web Browser my computer
: : is using.  As long as it is pretty and stable and powerful, I am happy.
: very good points!
: 但Linux如果在界面和易用性上超越Windows(并非不可能),Microsoft'll lose.
: 自由集市的模式比大教堂模式还是更有生命力些。
: : Imagine if Microsoft has the following functionality built into Windows
: : 2001:
: : you want to fly over to Florida for your friend's wedding.  So you open
: : the calendar, create an entry saying fly to Miami.  The computer automatically
: : goes out to the airline's services, hotel's services, find the lowest fare,
: : book the ticket with your permission, notify the friend of your trip,
: : make a reservation at the hotel, make a reservation at the rental car company,
: : monitor the flight update while you are on the sky, notify your friend of
: : any delays.
: : If I have this service built in, why do I still need priceline.com,
: : expedia.com, tracelocity.com?
: 呵呵,这还是不一样的。那如果Windows每天放一段新闻,我们是否可以怀疑CNN存在
: 的必要性呢?还是那句话,门户不等于内容,后者更重要些。
: : If I have  services like this in my system, why do I care if it is Linux or
: : WIndows? 
: //agree.


--


Greed is good - Gordon Gekko

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 199.50.26.27]
发信人: dapengz (Dapeng), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 16:54:55 2000), 站内信件

I agrre with some of your points.  It does not only require a bunch of
good programmars to develope a good interface.  It needs artists.  Lots of
artists.  Programmers does not usually understand what a user really
want.  I am fine with a terminal, but earlier Macs did not even have
a command line interface. 

Product cycles at Microsoft usually involve usability design and test.
Features are added or deleted depending on hte attitude of the users.
Such tests are not widely popular with Linux, I guess.

Another reasons is that many graphics stuff are built into the Windows
kernel to get a faster performance.  This is general impossible for
Linux because Linus Torvalds has the final say on kernels.  He will have
a pretty hard time if all these companies push him to add UI stuff
into the kernel.

When you are looking at huge products such as Windows or Linux, personal
intelligence does not make a big difference any more.  In other words,
it does not make too much difference if people at ms are smarter than
those doing linux or solaris.

【 在 breeze (gaga) 的大作中提到: 】
: for any OS to surpass MSFT in terms of user-friendliness and maintain
: the claim of stability .. i doubt if it's possible.
: After all all software are developed by human.. you think LInux programmers
: are smarter than MSFT? MSFT is the largest software maker and yte still
: have problems.. what makes Sun or Linux supreme?
: Unix can only claim better stability because they're not able to come up
: with the user-friendly tools like MSFT :)
: 【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: : very good points!
: : 但Linux如果在界面和易用性上超越Windows(并非不可能),Microsoft'll lose.
: : 自由集市的模式比大教堂模式还是更有生命力些。
: : 呵呵,这还是不一样的。那如果Windows每天放一段新闻,我们是否可以怀疑CNN存在
: : 的必要性呢?还是那句话,门户不等于内容,后者更重要些。
: : //agree.


--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 141.213.11.223]
发信人: dapengz (Dapeng), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 17:00:37 2000), 站内信件

: 呵呵,这还是不一样的。那如果Windows每天放一段新闻,我们是否可以怀疑CNN存在
: 的必要性呢?还是那句话,门户不等于内容,后者更重要些。
Microsoft already has content in certain areas.  For example, travel
arrangement (expedia is partof ms); news (msnbc); financial services
(money central); email (hotmail).  What microsoft needs now is a
strategy that combine these all together to beat Yahoo and AOLTW.
I personally think it is th reason that BillG takes the role of
Chief Software Architect at Ms.  We are probably at the intersection
of computing as 20 years ago.

Talking about the integration of services, another company to look out
for is Softbank.  It is a Japanese capital firm that has invested
heavily on Internet Startups.  Last time I checked it owns 20% of yahoo,
and a series of smaller companies.  One day, it might develope an
integrated solution to computing that will beat anyone else.

--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 141.213.11.223]
发信人: breeze (gaga), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 17:00:56 2000), 转信

you're missing the point.. what internet and the future msft is getting
rid of is the "intermediary" not hte vendor..

so ual, delta, continental are still necessary, so are papa johns, dominos

the ones that will lose are the travel agents, the pizza agents (not existent
in real life) :)

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Imagine if Microsoft has the following functionality built into Windows
: : 2001:
: : you want to fly over to Florida for your friend's wedding.  So you open
: : the calendar, create an entry saying fly to Miami.  The computer automatically
: : goes out to the airline's services, hotel's services, find the lowest fare,
: : book the ticket with your permission, notify the friend of your trip,
: : make a reservation at the hotel, make a reservation at the rental car company,
: : monitor the flight update while you are on the sky, notify your friend of
: : any delays.
: : If I have this service built in, why do I still need priceline.com,
: : expedia.com, tracelocity.com?
: 举个例子,如果将来Microsoft进军pizza业,用户告诉Windows 2010说饿了,
: 立马Windows 2010将信息传送出去,微软pizza店送来pizza。
: 方便是方便,但是否papa johns, Godfather等pizza店就可以关门了呢? :-)
: 我看关键还是pizza是否好吃、又省钱吧?:-)


--


Greed is good - Gordon Gekko

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 199.50.26.27]
发信人: dapengz (Dapeng), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 17:04:52 2000), 站内信件

Exactly.  However, it will not surprise me if these big computer
companies get into consumer business.  GM is only worth 60 Billion.
Microsoft has at least 10 Billion in the bank and can probably raise
60 Billion pretty easily.  There is a possibilty that ms buys GM, Ford
or DailmerChrysler and builds a Car-Made-To-Order business. :)  That
would be pretty disastreous for car dealers. :)

【 在 breeze (gaga) 的大作中提到: 】
: you're missing the point.. what internet and the future msft is getting
: rid of is the "intermediary" not hte vendor..
: so ual, delta, continental are still necessary, so are papa johns, dominos
: the ones that will lose are the travel agents, the pizza agents (not existent
: in real life) :)
: 【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 举个例子,如果将来Microsoft进军pizza业,用户告诉Windows 2010说饿了,
: : 立马Windows 2010将信息传送出去,微软pizza店送来pizza。
: : 方便是方便,但是否papa johns, Godfather等pizza店就可以关门了呢? :-)
: : 我看关键还是pizza是否好吃、又省钱吧?:-)


--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 141.213.11.223]
发信人: qili (qili), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 17:32:20 2000), 站内信件

【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 qili (qili) 的大作中提到: 】
: : My conclusions:
: : a) TW shareholders have a lot more leverage in the merger than AOL
: : shareholders (thus a premium on TW stocks);
: : b) it is unlikely AOL will get the deal done. If so, no internet company
: : will ever be able to buy a traditional content provider like TW;
: 这一点我没太明白,愿闻其详。
: 事实上合并可以说已经成功,美国政府似乎也不会干涉。

The deal doesn't post any threat to consumer wellfare so I doubt governmental
concerns are real in this case. if the deal is to fall apart, it is because
of economics.

There is no "back-off" clause in the deal, no "break-up" fees in the deal
either. However, both aol and tw shareholders still need to approve the deal
before it gets closed. Shareholders will consider not only aol/tw stock
prices at closing, but also long term perspectives of the combined company.

From TW shareholders' point of view, they were enjoying a premium of 46% on the
day the merger was announced (it jumped 30 from 65  a share) when AOL was at
~86 per share. Now that premium is only 26% per tw stock price (it closed at
81 and 11/16), or 3.6% per AOL stock price (it closed at 61 per share).

Implicitly, the market is saying that a) AOl overpaid (bad news to aol
shareholders), b) tw is more likely to benefit from the valuation if the deal
does NOT close) as indicated by the lower drop in premium in tw stock.

Another concern of tw shareholders is that if aol keeps droping, and yet
manages to get the deal closed (so tw shareholders will receive aol shares),
their ownership in the survival entity (as measured in aol shares) could be
worth less than their TW stake before the merger.

So, while the merger doesn't have a price floor, there is one in the minds
of tw shareholders, and that is if aol drops another 3.6% (to 58.8 per share),
it is better off the for the merger to fall through. At 61 per share, we are
not too far from that threshold.

From AOL shareholders' point of view, they are paying a 26% premium for a
company that grows probably at around 7-9%, has $10 billion in debt, whose
stock has done a lot in the last decade (6x vs. aol's god-knows-how-many-times).
and the aol shareholders have already suffered a 30% correction since
announcement of the merger. Why in hell should they y go any further
on this deal? and if there is no break-up fee, why not just unwind the
deal?

In summary, someone has to do a great job to sell the strategic benefits
of the deal, and show a roadmap of how they are going to make the deal
work to both aol and tw shareholders. and personally I think that
is an extremely difficult sales job.

I wouldn't be surprised if aol is shorted heavily by hedge fund managers and
arbs right now who bet that the deal would NOT go through.

--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 206.189.24.6]
发信人: qili (qili), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 17:39:46 2000), 站内信件

this has to be one of the best articles I have read at bbs.mit.edu,
clear, concise conclusisons backed with solid reasoning and good
business sense.

Especially the point about built-in services. Coincidentally, that
is exactly what MAC OS X did. It took Jobs several years to figure it
out, and OS X was built from ground up with that very goal in mind.

I believe Bill Gats knew it also because all Microsoft does that
caused so much reaction in the industry is to build proprietary
services right into the OS to make a commodity (the OS)  a
non-commodity by giving it differentiating features. Unfortunately,
Microsoft never took that idea to the level Jobs did.

Linux or not isn't the battle ground, the battle ground is the desktop
(so that value can be derived from it).

【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: You see a very weird situation here.  When everyone in the industry
: is degrading the importance of PC, the importance of the operating
: system, several Linux stocks made spetacular IPOs.  The industry
: has reached the point where the internal working of the OS is not
: importance any more.  The color is even more important.  So how can
: Linux take a stronghold if it can not compare with W2k in terms of
: User Interface?
: In my opinion, Linux and Netscape are both dead.  Few at Microsoft are
: worrying about them.  Remember, computers are just tools.  We need them
: to raise productivity.  So the next generation of operating system will
: have multiple services built in, which will greatly simplify the everyday
: life.  As a normal user, I do not care what OS or Web Browser my computer
: is using.  As long as it is pretty and stable and powerful, I am happy.
: Imagine if Microsoft has the following functionality built into Windows
: 2001:
: you want to fly over to Florida for your friend's wedding.  So you open
: the calendar, create an entry saying fly to Miami.  The computer automatically
: goes out to the airline's services, hotel's services, find the lowest fare,
: book the ticket with your permission, notify the friend of your trip,
: make a reservation at the hotel, make a reservation at the rental car company,
: monitor the flight update while you are on the sky, notify your friend of
: any delays.
: If I have this service built in, why do I still need priceline.com,
: expedia.com, tracelocity.com?
: If I have  services like this in my system, why do I care if it is Linux or
: WIndows? 
: 【 在 lpx (红日~~独自远行 ) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Netscape 在 Windows 下的暗然失色, 使得它跟 Linux 结成了
: : 真正的难兄难弟。
: : Linux 是 Windows 的一个很危险的潜在敌人, 旗帜鲜明的站出
: : 来要终结 Windows。 也许是为了扼杀Linux, 又也许是技术上的
: : 原因, M$没有在 Linux/Unix 下开发他的 IE。 而 Netscape 却
: : 和Linux/Unix 有着无缝的连接。
: : Linux/Unix 应该不会被 Windows 逼绝吧, 所以 Linux/Unix
: : 是 Netscape 的一个暂时安全而稳固的据点, 也是 Netscape
: : 发起反攻的最大的筹码。
: : Linux + Netscape vs. Windows + IE 称得上是软件中的世界大战。
: : 而这场战争的意义却远大于它本身。 战争的胜负, 决定了未来
: : 软件业, 甚至整个IT业的发展模式。
: : ”开放代码“这条路到底能不能绕过M$这座大山?
: : Netscape 应该把它与 Linux/Unix 的连接做得更好, 技术更成熟。
: : 到时, IE要进军 Linux/Unix, 恐怕插翅也追不上。
: : 这就得看Linux的本事了。


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 206.189.24.6]
发信人: dapengz (Dapeng), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 19:01:10 2000), 站内信件

Thank you.  I feel honored. :)  So how about a 10 billion venture
capital. :)

I read the article on Fortune about Steve Jobs.  History is making an
amazing repetition here.  Twenty years ago, it was a battle between
Apple and IBM that enriched Bill Gates.  Steve won the battle in a
certain sense, but he became a loser.  Now Steve is back to lead
a fight with the collection of small Internet startups.  The enemy
is even more formidable than IBM.  Will he win?  Will he win the
battle but boost Bill Gates again?  I feel BillG is certainly watching
every move Steve is making and trying to learn something from it.

Maybe we can be the winner too...

【 在 qili (qili) 的大作中提到: 】
: this has to be one of the best articles I have read at bbs.mit.edu,
: clear, concise conclusisons backed with solid reasoning and good
: business sense.
: Especially the point about built-in services. Coincidentally, that
: is exactly what MAC OS X did. It took Jobs several years to figure it
: out, and OS X was built from ground up with that very goal in mind.
: I believe Bill Gats knew it also because all Microsoft does that
: caused so much reaction in the industry is to build proprietary
: services right into the OS to make a commodity (the OS)  a
: non-commodity by giving it differentiating features. Unfortunately,
: Microsoft never took that idea to the level Jobs did.
: Linux or not isn't the battle ground, the battle ground is the desktop
: (so that value can be derived from it).
: 【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: : You see a very weird situation here.  When everyone in the industry
: : is degrading the importance of PC, the importance of the operating
: : system, several Linux stocks made spetacular IPOs.  The industry
: : has reached the point where the internal working of the OS is not
: : importance any more.  The color is even more important.  So how can
: : Linux take a stronghold if it can not compare with W2k in terms of
: : User Interface?
: : In my opinion, Linux and Netscape are both dead.  Few at Microsoft are
: : worrying about them.  Remember, computers are just tools.  We need them
: : to raise productivity.  So the next generation of operating system will
: : have multiple services built in, which will greatly simplify the everyday
: : life.  As a normal user, I do not care what OS or Web Browser my computer
: : is using.  As long as it is pretty and stable and powerful, I am happy.
: : Imagine if Microsoft has the following functionality built into Windows
: : 2001:
: : you want to fly over to Florida for your friend's wedding.  So you open
: : the calendar, create an entry saying fly to Miami.  The computer automatically
: : goes out to the airline's services, hotel's services, find the lowest fare,
: : book the ticket with your permission, notify the friend of your trip,
: : make a reservation at the hotel, make a reservation at the rental car company,
: : monitor the flight update while you are on the sky, notify your friend of
: : any delays.
: : If I have this service built in, why do I still need priceline.com,
: : expedia.com, tracelocity.com?
: : If I have  services like this in my system, why do I care if it is Linux or
: : WIndows? 


--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 141.213.173.73]
发信人: devil (闲人), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 19:36:17 2000), 站内信件

【 在 breeze (gaga) 的大作中提到: 】
: for any OS to surpass MSFT in terms of user-friendliness and maintain
: the claim of stability .. i doubt if it's possible.
: After all all software are developed by human.. you think LInux programmers
: are smarter than MSFT? MSFT is the largest software maker and yte still
: have problems.. what makes Sun or Linux supreme?
: Unix can only claim better stability because they're not able to come up
: with the user-friendly tools like MSFT :)
: 【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: : very good points!
: : 但Linux如果在界面和易用性上超越Windows(并非不可能),Microsoft'll lose.
: : 自由集市的模式比大教堂模式还是更有生命力些。
: : 呵呵,这还是不一样的。那如果Windows每天放一段新闻,我们是否可以怀疑CNN存在
: : 的必要性呢?还是那句话,门户不等于内容,后者更重要些。
: : //agree.

For user friendly/ usability, I do not think Linux will be better than
Windows. Since GUI need a centralized design team to make it be more
user friendly and consistent in style. This is mainly because that the
interface to an OS will need a lot of different parts working coorperately.

For stability of OS, open source is a good choice. Since more hackers can
read it and refine it.

Therefore, I believe that Linux will not really success in desktop OS. But
maybe it will be a good choice for a Internet server. Linux and Windows NT
will be the two main forces in server market. ( Here, I think Windows NT will
still be strong is also due to its professional development team.)

For desktop OS, I think Windows will still dominate it. Unless there is some
miracle happens. ;p


--
※ 修改:.devil 于 Jan 18 19:49:56 修改本文.[FROM: 132.170.109.198]
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 132.170.109.198]
发信人: ysf (Nonoyo), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Tue Jan 18 21:54:50 2000) WWW-POST


  This is my comments, because i really loved Netscape when I was in China
and I was the only guy in Wangba who used it. I think Netscape made several
mistakes:
     1: Everything is around netcenter, this is stupid because independent
company will not promote Netscape Browser, think about the icon of Netscape
at the right-above corner, if this is changed to icon of Yahoo!, AOl!, Excite
and IBM, Dell, and bookmarks of them,these giants will be very happy to
support. Just as everyone see, most companies promote IE5.0 when this is
on the market because you have editions of Snap!, AOL!, Road Runner!,
companies will love to have their benchmarks in the browser.
     2: Netscape didn't cooperate with online eretailers, from here, netscape
can benefit from e-business even Netscape is freely distributed, the future
successful company should make $$ from e-bussiness instead ripping people
like M$.$$$$$ is very important to further improve the product and the fact is most
computer programmers left Netscape,even after it was sold to AOL.
     3: Netscape should actively sue M$ when Win98 came out, this will not
only bring possible $$$ from M$(Like Caldera), will also limit the illegal
bundle of IE with Windows. I think the strangling behavior is the main
reason why Netscape failed, because they cut the oxygen of this small
company.
     4: No progress after Netscape 4.0, I know this is mainly due to the
unfair competition from M$, but now, IE is far ahead of it. Just to see
how convenient to use IE history, IE favorites, IE search, Full Screen,
and IE help(For netscape users) help NTSP users to switch to IE


     The following will be my suggestion for netscape:

   1, Split from AOL and sue M$ when it is indicted with monoply.
   2, Switch to e-bussiness and offer different version of Netscape
   3, Save $$ and emply more people to write software, do not expect
      free code from hackers and anti-M$ guys without giving them $$$$.
   4, Enable people access internet from phone, TV, PDA, DVD, Pager,and
      other net appliance and reduce the dependability of Windows PC,
      this should be the slogan: "Internet anywhere, Netscape anywhere"

    我现在很多时候已经使用IE5了,因为它更好用,更加稳定,不象NETSCAPE 4+
  那样非常容易死机。但看中文时还是NTSP更爽,M$真他妈的不是东西,我可以想象
  如果NTSP发生在微软,现在IE可能会200美元,况且即使现在M$也可以通过
  提高WINDOWS的价格来大捞一笔,W2K就是一个证明。要知道,MS曾经与很多
  ICP讨论免费使用微软的软件设计网页,以便只有使用IE才能阅读,但M$招到
  拒绝,理由很简单,如果IE是唯一的,M$会向所有的ICP,ISP,ERETAILER勒索
  巨额的钞票,因特网会成为M$的收费公路。
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 
:   Internet概念实际上是从1995年“炒”起来的,在此过程中,有几个重要的事件值得关
:   注。其一是由美国政府倡导的信息高速公路计划,这是Internet发展过程中最重要的概
:   念。其二是1995年8月Netscape的上市成功,虽然在此之前,I nternet、浏览器、E-mail
:   等都存在,但是就在Netscape公司上市的一夜之间,使得所有人的目光都集中到了
:   Inter net上。
:
:   但是这种躁动到底能持续多久?以Netscape为首的第一轮Internet狂热,主要造就了
:   AOL、Yahoo!而这一次的冲击比上一轮来得更加猛烈和彻底,只要是Internet公司就可
:   以上市。这一轮的狂热在1998年11月底开始启动,到现在已经半年了,股市一直维持
:   在波峰。按照原Netscape副总裁沙正治的说法,“现在整个Internet都是没有天理
:   的”。
:
:   在第二轮Internet狂热来临之际,第一轮领导者Netscape却黯然消失。
:
:   惊醒微软
:
:   实际上,当时Netscape实在是太成功了,但是不幸的是Netscape惊醒了微软这位巨人!
:   1995年BillGa tes出版了《未来之路》。我读完此书的感觉是:由于Netscape的神话,使
:   得BillGates看不清未来的方向,看不到微软的前景。BillGates一直在反思Internet到底会
:   对社会的未来带来多大影响!这个反思后来落实到了1995年12月微软的“ Internet战略
:   日”。我阅读了微软决策的前前后后,感到是Netscape的神话把BillGates激怒了。所以
:   我认为,《未来之路》是BillGates反思网络发展的结果。从微软的“Internet战略日”
:   开始,整个Microsoft全面转型,转向I nternet,并且使用其所有的力量去围追堵截
:   Netscape。这是Netscape失败的一个重要原因。
:
:   后来,微软一下投资几亿美元开发IE,而且要求微软的所有销售人员都要支持微软的
:   Internet战略。另外,微软中断了 Windows 97的开发,解散了开发部门。在我1995年去
:   微软的时候,他们的高层人员给了我一个关于Windows 97的详细时间表。但在Netscape
:   成功之后,BillGates为了赶上Internet这趟车,不惜解散Windows 97的开发组,将整个业
:   务转到Internet上。BillGates之所以想这么做,主要是为了尝试一种可能性:在历史上
:   没有一个人能够成功地跨越两个不同的时代。
:
:   除了微软的打压之外,Netscape的本身也存在很多问题。我认为如果当时Netscape少犯
:   几个大错误,也许将是N etscape收购AOL,而不是恰恰相反。我认为Netscape主要犯了
:   几个致命错误。
:
:   首先,是Netscape在成功之后,创新能力减弱了许多。我们一直在跟踪Netscape的浏览
:   器软件,看到Netsc ape的前几个版本,1·0、2·0、3·0这三个版本都有非常强的创
:   意,而且时间也跟得特别紧。在这一阶段,凭著这样的开发速度,N etscape远远地将
:   微软抛在了后面。但是从3·0之后,IE已经推出了,在这种情况下,按道理Netscape
:   应该更加努力地向前冲,但是从产品上却看不到这种动力了。我们看到在浏览器这个
:   领域,后来大部分创意都来自于微软,而不是Netscape。毫无疑问谁提供了创意,谁
:   就有可能控制未来的标准。微软的天天向上和Netscape的天天向下,使得两者很快地
:   接近了。
:
:   其次,Netscape从开始就没有想清楚:一个免费发放软件的商业模式应该是什么?由
:   于Netscape是上市公司,所以每个季度都要向股民有个交代。在这个情况下,很多投
:   资人都非常关心的一个问题是:如何利用这种免费下载的模式来赚钱。在股市的压力
:   之下,Netscape就产生了两个非常重要的想法:一个是在大家都习惯了使用Netscape浏
:   览器后,再考虑通过销售获得利润;另一个是公司除了浏览器之外,通过做一些大系
:   统来获得利润。本来这两个想法可以相辅相成,共同为Netscape赢得利润和市场份
:   额,但是微软的加入一下子打碎了Netscape的如意算盘,使得Netscape最终竹篮打水一
:   场空。
:
:   没有创建自己的游戏规则
:
:   最后,Netscape领导层缺乏一种远见,他们看不清游戏的下一步该怎么玩,虽然他们
:   一开始有了好的创意,但是都没有坚持下去。Netscape在同微软玩“猫捉老鼠”的游
:   戏时,被微软完全套住,一开始的游戏规则也被微软巧妙地篡改,完全按照微软擅长
:   的方式进行。BillGates在《未来之路》里的一句话给我留下了很深的印像:如果你的
:   手中只有锤子,你会希望你的所有问题都是钉子。 BillGates很清楚自己擅长什么,什
:   么样的游戏规则最适合自己。微软在PC这个领域已经创造了一套很严密,也是很成功
:   的一套游戏规则,很自然,微软希望大家都能在这样的游戏规则下竞争。在微软同
:   Netscape两三年的斗法过程中,BillGates非常成功地让Netscape一直跟著他走,再后来
:   Netscape实际上被微软牵著鼻子走。但不幸的是Netscape并不清楚适合自己的游戏规则
:   是什么,同时在这个过程中,Netscape逐步放弃了自己在软件和网络方面开创的很好
:   的机会。而这些机会都是全新的,如果Net scape能在这些机会上全力以赴,也许就不
:   会像今天这个样子。用一个形像的比喻:Netscape就像一只在高速公路上狂奔的兔子
:   一样,后面有一大堆拖拉机、卡车等机械化工具在追赶,但是最让人感到莫名其妙的
:   是,为什么这只兔子一定要在高速公路上奔跑呢?如果兔子在山路上奔跑,卡车又能
:   如何?
:
:   我认为最后一点是非常重要的,Netscape向自己的目标迈进时,为什么一定要用竞争
:   对手的游戏规则呢?Netscap e应该很明白自己和微软完全不同,但是由于某些原因
:   Netscape把自己放在了一个非常不适当的位置上了,完全被微软套牢。我们可以从
:   Netscape的产品线、技术方案和营销策略等方面明显看出这种失误。在1997年连续看
:   了Netscape的浏览器的几个版本后,我觉得非常失望,当时我感觉Netscape完了,要成
:   了微软的钉子。
:
:   缺少有远见的领导
:
:   我认为,最重要的是Netscape缺少一个真正的灵魂人物,一个可以和BillGates抗衡的领
:   导人。JimClar k在计算机这个行业上的执著和天份,远远不如BillGates。微软公司的很
:   多重要决策,实际上都是依赖于BillGates个人的直觉来形成的,正是这种核心的力量
:   主导著微软公司向前迈进,而Netscape没有这种核心人物。沙正治后来对我讲的也证
:   实了我的判断。他说Anderson已是江郎□尽了,而且他只盯著微软,就想做微软第
:   二,所以他没有时间和能力来考虑适合自己的商业模式。
:
:   Yahoo!为什么能成功,主要是它们有自己的灵魂人物□□□杨致远。Yahoo!很多的
:   思路都来自于杨致远,他对于Ya hoo!该怎么发展,有自己的一套思路,而且一直围
:   绕著这个想法来建设Yahoo!,他们没有兴趣去学别人。虽然把一个市值数百亿的公
:   司押在一个人身上,会有很大风险,但对于Internet公司来说,就得这样赌,没有什么
:   保险的办法。所以,我认为Netscape走麦城,并不是因为它没有投资其他方向,而主
:   要是因为没有一个强有力的“主心骨”,一个灵魂人物。这个原因使得Netscape没有
:   一个长远的目标,只能不停地学习其他公司的模式,这样最终丧失了自己的机会。所
:   以,我认为,在一个Internet公司里一定要有一个核心的思想者,同时还要有一个强有
:   力的执行班?
:
:
:   多维新闻网:http://www.chinesenewsnet.com
:




--
※ 修改:·ysf 於 Jan 18 21:54:50 修改本文·[FROM: 24.95.154.192]
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 24.95.154.192]
发信人: xg (xg), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 02:01:13 2000), 站内信件

【 在 lpx (红日~~独自远行 ) 的大作中提到: 】
: Netscape 在 Windows 下的暗然失色, 使得它跟 Linux 结成了
: 真正的难兄难弟。
: Linux 是 Windows 的一个很危险的潜在敌人, 旗帜鲜明的站出
: 来要终结 Windows。 也许是为了扼杀Linux, 又也许是技术上的
: 原因, M$没有在 Linux/Unix 下开发他的 IE。 而 Netscape 却
: 和Linux/Unix 有着无缝的连接。

实际上IE5已经有Solaris and HP-UX version
我用过Solaris version,我觉得做的还可以,不比
Netscape差

我想如果 M$ 想 port 到其他平台(如Linux)我想代价也不是很大
关键是 M$ 的商业策略以及售后支持的问题,M$ 对Unix平台的支持
一直较少,但我认为IE5 for Solaris已经给Netscape for Unix敲响
了警钟

实际上我认为,Netscape的Bug决不会比IE少,而且Unix版的Netscape
启动又慢又经常死,如果Netscape在失去Unix平台的市场,它可真正要
死翘翘了


而在Windows平台上我认为IE5已经远远超过Netscape 4.x,如:
        国际支持:它和Windows的国际支持耦合的非常好
                  在英文平台上,可以方便的浏览和输入其他语言的文字
        XML支持:Netscape至今还没有对XML的支持
        CSS: 据说Netscape的CSS支持不地道
        性能: 我感觉在我的机器上IE速度要比Nescape快得多,我论是启动还是浏览
        稳定性:  在我机器上IE死的次数并不比Netscape多,在有java情况下,
                Netscape比IE死的机会更多
        显示效果:我感觉IE对字体处理(特别是中文)比Netscape好看的多

以上个人意见仅供参考

: Linux/Unix 应该不会被 Windows 逼绝吧, 所以 Linux/Unix
: 是 Netscape 的一个暂时安全而稳固的据点, 也是 Netscape
: 发起反攻的最大的筹码。
: Linux + Netscape vs. Windows + IE 称得上是软件中的世界大战。
: 而这场战争的意义却远大于它本身。 战争的胜负, 决定了未来
: 软件业, 甚至整个IT业的发展模式。
: ”开放代码“这条路到底能不能绕过M$这座大山?
: Netscape 应该把它与 Linux/Unix 的连接做得更好, 技术更成熟。
: 到时, IE要进军 Linux/Unix, 恐怕插翅也追不上。
: 这就得看Linux的本事了。
: 【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 这是一篇比较老的文章。我今天看到后便想和大伙讨论一下。
: : Netscape真的有机会生存下来么?王志东所说的“让兔子在山路
: : 上和卡车赛跑”是否有些理想主义了?对于软件行业的netscape,
: : 它如何找到它的山路呢?
: : 另一个问题就是,如果Netscape以一种成熟的商业伙伴态度来对待微软,
: : 比如最初时答应在windows中预装Navigator, 那么是否会博得充分的时间
: : 来发展壮大自己,并通过Windows来达到极大的browser市场份额呢?
: : 同时似乎也可以延迟IE的到来。一旦资金和市场建立起来,即使和IE
: : 进行免费大战也是很有一搏的。
: : 似乎问题的关键在于Netscape高估了自己,把自己定位于一个新时代的开创者,
: : 一个反对微软时代的旗手,而没有韬光养晦充分利用新时代的机会发展自己。
: : 微软和Netscape之战,似乎是商业社会的胜利,也是理想主义的悲哀。
: : 随便和大伙聊聊,望多多发言。


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 137.189.89.142]
发信人: alanine (尺子), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 11:51:46 2000), 转信

BeOS is better than MS W2000 in terms of user-friendliness and stability
and speed. But who cares? People still keep ingoring BeOS, and still
use stupid Windows. The point here should not be "user-frienly" or "stable"
or even "speed". The quality of an OS NEVER matters.

What matters in a business is still the business. You see LINUX has
made quite a lot of noise, but that is not because LINUX is open source,
or because LINUX is free. It is because the guys behind LINUX (redhat, VA
Linux) know how to run business.

Market share in the OS area does matter, but only to a certain extent.
I believe current anti-trust case would definitely hurt MS, not matter
who wins in the end.

【 在 breeze (gaga) 的大作中提到: 】
: for any OS to surpass MSFT in terms of user-friendliness and maintain
: the claim of stability .. i doubt if it's possible.
: After all all software are developed by human.. you think LInux programmers
: are smarter than MSFT? MSFT is the largest software maker and yte still
: have problems.. what makes Sun or Linux supreme?
: Unix can only claim better stability because they're not able to come up
: with the user-friendly tools like MSFT :)
: 【 在 power (一块红布) 的大作中提到: 】
: : very good points!
: : 但Linux如果在界面和易用性上超越Windows(并非不可能),Microsoft'll lose.
: : 自由集市的模式比大教堂模式还是更有生命力些。
: : 呵呵,这还是不一样的。那如果Windows每天放一段新闻,我们是否可以怀疑CNN存在
: : 的必要性呢?还是那句话,门户不等于内容,后者更重要些。
: : //agree.


--
于是他举起准备好的左轮手枪
对准自己的太阳穴扣动了扳机
这就是火星上的井的故事

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 165.21.127.229]
发信人: alanine (尺子), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 12:02:42 2000), 转信

【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: I agrre with some of your points.  It does not only require a bunch of
: good programmars to develope a good interface.  It needs artists.  Lots of
: artists.  Programmers does not usually understand what a user really
: want.  I am fine with a terminal, but earlier Macs did not even have
: a command line interface. 

The artists in MS do not know how to make good UIs. Those in Apple
do, look at their MacOS, and then the coming MacOS X. That is what
can be called "artistic", MS stuff sucks in the UI, and Linux stuff
such as KDE, or GNOME, or Motif, even suck more.

: Product cycles at Microsoft usually involve usability design and test.
: Features are added or deleted depending on hte attitude of the users.
: Such tests are not widely popular with Linux, I guess.

Such tests in Linux development is arguably more efficient than MS's.
Open source does has its good traits once millions of people are free
to test and to modify the OS itself.

: Another reasons is that many graphics stuff are built into the Windows
: kernel to get a faster performance.  This is general impossible for
: Linux because Linus Torvalds has the final say on kernels.  He will have
: a pretty hard time if all these companies push him to add UI stuff
: into the kernel.

That is not true. Linux already has frame buffer built into the kernel.
It still needs more work though. By building graphics into kernel does
speed up a little, but not much given the current hardware. The real
problem is with X. X is the slowest protocol for graphics handling.
It was not designed to handle console graphics, and nor will it do
any better. But I guess Linux is bundled with X, which is a pretty
miserable thing. Do watch out the coming OS X from apple, with a BSD
kernel and superb graphics interface called Aqua.

: When you are looking at huge products such as Windows or Linux, personal
: intelligence does not make a big difference any more.  In other words,
: it does not make too much difference if people at ms are smarter than
: those doing linux or solaris.

That is also not very valid. Personal intelligence does make a lot
of difference. Look at products coming out from Steven Jobs, they
are always prettier than stuffs from MS. Look at stuffs coming out
from Linus, they are pretty intact and well designed. Which is definitely
a reason why Linux is more stable than Windows 9x. Product quality
is product quality, and business is business. They both depend a lot on
a few key players involved.

: 【 在 breeze (gaga) 的大作中提到: 】
: : for any OS to surpass MSFT in terms of user-friendliness and maintain
: : the claim of stability .. i doubt if it's possible.
: : After all all software are developed by human.. you think LInux programmers
: : are smarter than MSFT? MSFT is the largest software maker and yte still
: : have problems.. what makes Sun or Linux supreme?
: : Unix can only claim better stability because they're not able to come up
: : with the user-friendly tools like MSFT :)


--
于是他举起准备好的左轮手枪
对准自己的太阳穴扣动了扳机
这就是火星上的井的故事

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 165.21.127.229]
发信人: alanine (尺子), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 12:16:52 2000), 转信

【 在 xg (xg) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 lpx (红日~~独自远行 ) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Netscape 在 Windows 下的暗然失色, 使得它跟 Linux 结成了
: : 真正的难兄难弟。
: : Linux 是 Windows 的一个很危险的潜在敌人, 旗帜鲜明的站出
: : 来要终结 Windows。 也许是为了扼杀Linux, 又也许是技术上的
: : 原因, M$没有在 Linux/Unix 下开发他的 IE。 而 Netscape 却
: : 和Linux/Unix 有着无缝的连接。
: 实际上IE5已经有Solaris and HP-UX version
: 我用过Solaris version,我觉得做的还可以,不比
: Netscape差

很差很差,慢了不只两倍。我怀疑 MS 在 IE4 for Solaris 里用
了解很 cheap 的模拟机,不过也无从证实。

: 我想如果 M$ 想 port 到其他平台(如Linux)我想代价也不是很大
: 关键是 M$ 的商业策略以及售后支持的问题,M$ 对Unix平台的支持
: 一直较少,但我认为IE5 for Solaris已经给Netscape for Unix敲响
: 了警钟

代价要看怎么说,化多少钱那是不在乎的,不过可不能因此 promote
了 Linux :)

: 实际上我认为,Netscape的Bug决不会比IE少,而且Unix版的Netscape
: 启动又慢又经常死,如果Netscape在失去Unix平台的市场,它可真正要
: 死翘翘了
: 而在Windows平台上我认为IE5已经远远超过Netscape 4.x,如:
:         国际支持:它和Windows的国际支持耦合的非常好
:                   在英文平台上,可以方便的浏览和输入其他语言的文字

这点的确 IE 做得很成功,不过很大程度上 leverage 了MS 在 Windows
上的多语种的开发经验已经 lib,netscape 很难在这方面赶得上来。

:         XML支持:Netscape至今还没有对XML的支持

XML is a hoax, I dont believe it. If given a standard exchange
format, any other format would succeed. The problem is that
the public seems to agree XML is the standard of exchanging data,
while I think XML is too bloated, there are far better things than
XML.

:         CSS: 据说Netscape的CSS支持不地道

No, should be the other way round. IE's CSS did not follow standard.
But more people use IE, who cares standard.

:         性能: 我感觉在我的机器上IE速度要比Nescape快得多,我论是启动还是浏览
:         稳定性:  在我机器上IE死的次数并不比Netscape多,在有java情况下,
:                 Netscape比IE死的机会更多

The speed, hehe, You never know how many backdoors MS has opened in
the OS. If they ever release the source code of Win95, that would
make the greatest joke in history.


:         显示效果:我感觉IE对字体处理(特别是中文)比Netscape好看的多

faint. If you use the same 字体, it would be the same!

: 以上个人意见仅供参考
: : Linux/Unix 应该不会被 Windows 逼绝吧, 所以 Linux/Unix
: : 是 Netscape 的一个暂时安全而稳固的据点, 也是 Netscape
: : 发起反攻的最大的筹码。
: : Linux + Netscape vs. Windows + IE 称得上是软件中的世界大战。
: : 而这场战争的意义却远大于它本身。 战争的胜负, 决定了未来
: : 软件业, 甚至整个IT业的发展模式。
: : ”开放代码“这条路到底能不能绕过M$这座大山?
: : Netscape 应该把它与 Linux/Unix 的连接做得更好, 技术更成熟。
: : 到时, IE要进军 Linux/Unix, 恐怕插翅也追不上。
: : 这就得看Linux的本事了。


--
于是他举起准备好的左轮手枪
对准自己的太阳穴扣动了扳机
这就是火星上的井的故事

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 165.21.127.229]
发信人: qili (qili), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 12:37:09 2000), 站内信件

【 在 alanine (尺子) 的大作中提到: 】
: That is not true. Linux already has frame buffer built into the kernel.
: It still needs more work though. By building graphics into kernel does
: speed up a little, but not much given the current hardware. The real
: problem is with X. X is the slowest protocol for graphics handling.
: It was not designed to handle console graphics, and nor will it do
: any better. But I guess Linux is bundled with X, which is a pretty
: miserable thing. Do watch out the coming OS X from apple, with a BSD
: kernel and superb graphics interface called Aqua.

This combination (BSD kernel + a proprietary GUI in Aqua) could be a
model that Linux vendors will eventually go to help differentiate themselves.
there is no argument that kernel wise, Linux is pretty good (not
as good as BSD).It would make a lot of sense for a vendor to write a
more integrated GUI (than X) and bundle it with the linux kernel (just
as OS X did), and make life easier for lots of us (and make a lot of money
in the process)?

BTW: isn't OS X based on NextOS? where did you hear that it is based
on BSD?

--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 206.189.24.6]
发信人: alanine (尺子), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 12:46:35 2000), 转信

【 在 qili (qili) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 alanine (尺子) 的大作中提到: 】
: : That is not true. Linux already has frame buffer built into the kernel.
: : It still needs more work though. By building graphics into kernel does
: : speed up a little, but not much given the current hardware. The real
: : problem is with X. X is the slowest protocol for graphics handling.
: : It was not designed to handle console graphics, and nor will it do
: : any better. But I guess Linux is bundled with X, which is a pretty
: : miserable thing. Do watch out the coming OS X from apple, with a BSD
: : kernel and superb graphics interface called Aqua.
: This combination (BSD kernel + a proprietary GUI in Aqua) could be a
: model that Linux vendors will eventually go to help differentiate themselves.
: there is no argument that kernel wise, Linux is pretty good (not
: as good as BSD).It would make a lot of sense for a vendor to write a
: more integrated GUI (than X) and bundle it with the linux kernel (just
: as OS X did), and make life easier for lots of us (and make a lot of money
: in the process)?
: BTW: isn't OS X based on NextOS? where did you hear that it is based
: on BSD?

Well, OS X's GUI engine is borrowed from NextOS. What actually surprises
me is that the display is handled through Postscript engine, and PDF would
be the standard of document view on OS X. I was always wondering what
kind of secret they could have in the postscript engine to make it fast.
You can watch the demo MOV on apple's website, amazing graphics.

And OS X's base OS is from BSD Mach kernel, which both MkLinux (apple
previous supported) and Next(? I dont confirm this) have leveraged on.

In short, OS X = Darwin + Aqua.
Darwin is the open source project at Apple, and Aqua remains proprietory.

--
于是他举起准备好的左轮手枪
对准自己的太阳穴扣动了扳机
这就是火星上的井的故事

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 165.21.127.229]
发信人: dapengz (Dapeng), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 13:04:32 2000), 站内信件

【 在 alanine (尺子) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: : I agrre with some of your points.  It does not only require a bunch of
: : good programmars to develope a good interface.  It needs artists.  Lots of
: : artists.  Programmers does not usually understand what a user really
: : want.  I am fine with a terminal, but earlier Macs did not even have
: : a command line interface. 
: The artists in MS do not know how to make good UIs. Those in Apple
: do, look at their MacOS, and then the coming MacOS X. That is what
: can be called "artistic", MS stuff sucks in the UI, and Linux stuff
: such as KDE, or GNOME, or Motif, even suck more.
I have heard people saying Mac UI is better.  But I just love w2k's UI.
It is a piece of art to me.  So pretty!  I haven't really got a chance
to look at OS X.  But I guess even if it is superb, ms will catch up
pretty quickly.

: : Product cycles at Microsoft usually involve usability design and test.
: : Features are added or deleted depending on hte attitude of the users.
: : Such tests are not widely popular with Linux, I guess.
: Such tests in Linux development is arguably more efficient than MS's.
: Open source does has its good traits once millions of people are free
: to test and to modify the OS itself.
You know, the last sentence sounds day dreaming to me. :)  How could you
expect millions of people to test and modify an OS?  Remember, computer
is just a tool.  We need it so our productivity is higher than wihout using
computers.  But testing and modifying an OS certainly decreases my
productivity if I am not in the OS industry.

: : When you are looking at huge products such as Windows or Linux, personal
: : intelligence does not make a big difference any more.  In other words,
: : it does not make too much difference if people at ms are smarter than
: : those doing linux or solaris.
: That is also not very valid. Personal intelligence does make a lot
: of difference. Look at products coming out from Steven Jobs, they
: are always prettier than stuffs from MS. Look at stuffs coming out
: from Linus, they are pretty intact and well designed. Which is definitely
: a reason why Linux is more stable than Windows 9x. Product quality
: is product quality, and business is business. They both depend a lot on
: a few key players involved.
This goes back to the question whether Mac is prettier than windows.  It
is rather personal.  However, if Steve is smarter than most people at
microsoft, why does Windows have a 90% market share on desktop computers?
If you look at Windows 2000, they are pretty intact and well designed too.
And they have design documentation, piles of them.  Does Linux community
have that?  Does Linux community have something as decent as MSDN?  Win9x
is not designed to be as stable as possible.  Microsoft saved money and
shipped it earlier by relaxing hte constraints on it. 

When people look at computer industry, they see a bunch of people standing
out.  So they say they determined the fate of the industry.  It is not
really the way how it works.  Hundreds of thousands programmers are
responsible for the success of the computers.

--
There are three kinds of persons on this planet.  Those who can count and
those who can't.

※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 141.213.11.223]
发信人: qili (qili), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 13:53:52 2000), 站内信件

【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: This goes back to the question whether Mac is prettier than windows.  It
: is rather personal.  However, if Steve is smarter than most people at
: microsoft, why does Windows have a 90% market share on desktop computers?

Well, having a larger market share doesn't mean you have a better product: I
am sure GM sold more Cavaliar than BMW did 850. That, in and of itself,
doesn't mean the 850 is an inferior product.

Apple has positioned itself as a high-end niche player, just as BMW did.
and Microsoft took the opposite approach and tries to be a VW.

Either approach is valid.

--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 206.189.24.6]
发信人: whh (大不了爱吃爱吃), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 15:08:29 2000), 站内信件

Windows UI certainly is not better, not even good at all although it's
much better than Win 3.X. Microsoft certainly spend big amount of money
on its UI design, but even epople from MS are criticizing it. People
want to comment on Windows UI should at least look at Allan' book <<About
Face>> (he is the architect of Visual Basic). This book excellently describes
how stupid these UI elements and interaction are. Unfortuantely, several
years passed since the book was published, not much changes have happened.

As graphic performance is concerned, remember who is on the high-end of
this area. It is SGI, a traditional Unix vendor. Nearly all hollywood
special effects are produced by SGI Unix machines. And SGI is actively pushing
its technology into Linux now.

【 在 dapengz (Dapeng) 的大作中提到: 】
: I agrre with some of your points.  It does not only require a bunch of
: good programmars to develope a good interface.  It needs artists.  Lots of
: artists.  Programmers does not usually understand what a user really
: want.  I am fine with a terminal, but earlier Macs did not even have
: a command line interface. 
: Product cycles at Microsoft usually involve usability design and test.
: Features are added or deleted depending on hte attitude of the users.
: Such tests are not widely popular with Linux, I guess.
: Another reasons is that many graphics stuff are built into the Windows
: kernel to get a faster performance.  This is general impossible for
: Linux because Linus Torvalds has the final say on kernels.  He will have
: a pretty hard time if all these companies push him to add UI stuff
: into the kernel.
: When you are looking at huge products such as Windows or Linux, personal
: intelligence does not make a big difference any more.  In other words,
: it does not make too much difference if people at ms are smarter than
: those doing linux or solaris.
: 【 在 breeze (gaga) 的大作中提到: 】
: : for any OS to surpass MSFT in terms of user-friendliness and maintain
: : the claim of stability .. i doubt if it's possible.
: : After all all software are developed by human.. you think LInux programmers
: : are smarter than MSFT? MSFT is the largest software maker and yte still
: : have problems.. what makes Sun or Linux supreme?
: : Unix can only claim better stability because they're not able to come up
: : with the user-friendly tools like MSFT :)


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 171.69.44.233]
发信人: devil (闲人), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 16:51:22 2000), 站内信件

【 在 whh (大不了爱吃爱吃) 的大作中提到: 】
: Windows UI certainly is not better, not even good at all although it's
: much better than Win 3.X. Microsoft certainly spend big amount of money
: on its UI design, but even epople from MS are criticizing it. People
: want to comment on Windows UI should at least look at Allan' book <<About
: Face>> (he is the architect of Visual Basic). This book excellently describes
: how stupid these UI elements and interaction are. Unfortuantely, several
: years passed since the book was published, not much changes have happened.

I my own opinion, I think that a good UI should be the one which most
of the user are familiar with. I do not think there will be a best UI.
The only difference between commercial UI/OS product for an ordinary user
is that "I am used to this UI, but I seldom use other UI/OS".

I believe in IT market, questions such as "who is the first?", "who is
the largest?", and "who has the largest group of users?" are very very
important. Although MS' OS is not the best, but it holds the largest
portion of user. In this sense, they are the best. ;p


: As graphic performance is concerned, remember who is on the high-end of
: this area. It is SGI, a traditional Unix vendor. Nearly all hollywood
: special effects are produced by SGI Unix machines. And SGI is actively pushing
: its technology into Linux now.

Here the graphics is a different story with what you referred. What
dapengz mean is the graphics support for GUI. It is not the kind of
3D graphics stuff by SGI. He mean that the kernel supported GUI is
an advantage of Windows when compared with Linux. I am also think
so.

Windows is more important as a low-end desktop OS. Linux is hot
only because they grow fast in Internet Server market.

--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 132.170.109.198]
发信人: whh (大不了爱吃爱吃), 信区: ITnews
标  题: Re: [转载] 王志东: Netscape为何走麦城
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Wed Jan 19 17:18:49 2000), 站内信件

I never say Windows's UI is the worst - it may arguably be one of the best
available right now since nobody else is superior in this field.
Still the graphics issue - 2D & 3D performance is generally tightly related,
a system will a high 3D performance usually has a high 2D performace like
filling, clipping, etc.. This is somewhat off topic, but the main topic
is under Linux, you can get very good graphics support even if it is not
embeded into OS. Since Windows's graphics is so tightly embeded in
its OS, it makes itself a good desktop OS, but not a server or appliance
OS. You are essentially buying a train for your commute.

【 在 devil (闲人) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 whh (大不了爱吃爱吃) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Windows UI certainly is not better, not even good at all although it's
: : much better than Win 3.X. Microsoft certainly spend big amount of money
: : on its UI design, but even epople from MS are criticizing it. People
: : want to comment on Windows UI should at least look at Allan' book <<About
: : Face>> (he is the architect of Visual Basic). This book excellently describes
: : how stupid these UI elements and interaction are. Unfortuantely, several
: : years passed since the book was published, not much changes have happened.
: I my own opinion, I think that a good UI should be the one which most
: of the user are familiar with. I do not think there will be a best UI.
: The only difference between commercial UI/OS product for an ordinary user
: is that "I am used to this UI, but I seldom use other UI/OS".
: I believe in IT market, questions such as "who is the first?", "who is
: the largest?", and "who has the largest group of users?" are very very
: important. Although MS' OS is not the best, but it holds the largest
: portion of user. In this sense, they are the best. ;p
: : As graphic performance is concerned, remember who is on the high-end of
: : this area. It is SGI, a traditional Unix vendor. Nearly all hollywood
: : special effects are produced by SGI Unix machines. And SGI is actively pushing
: : its technology into Linux now.
: Here the graphics is a different story with what you referred. What
: dapengz mean is the graphics support for GUI. It is not the kind of
: 3D graphics stuff by SGI. He mean that the kernel supported GUI is
: an advantage of Windows when compared with Linux. I am also think
: so.
: Windows is more important as a low-end desktop OS. Linux is hot
: only because they grow fast in Internet Server market.


--
※ 来源:.The unknown SPACE bbs.mit.edu.[FROM: 171.69.44.233]

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